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Victor Payan: You have mentioned that you are concerned with the storytelling capacity of film, and that one of the primary goals of a film is to tell its story authentically.
Carlos Avila: The primary goal really is to engage an audience. You really need to be preoccupied with that, because an audience wants to make an emotional investment in characters. In any endeavor to try to involve them, to educate them, to inform them, to move them, to touch them, I think the only way you can do that really is by engaging them through a story that really is effective, that is well-told, that has characters who are compelling and thoughtful and well-drawn portraits of people.
(If) you're working in a very naturalistic form, which I tend to work in, then you want to strive for creating believable, real people as characters who will move throughout your story. In that regard, you look for authenticity, you look for things that humanize a character, that give them the dimension and the range that a human being would have given an emotional or a dramatic situation. So you strive for authenticity on those levels.
Victor Payan: Many students starting out try to put all their ideas into their first film, so that every character becomes a cardboard symbol. "Distant Water" overcomes that.
Carlos Avila: There is a long tradition of having characters who tend to represent a very specific viewpoint, and that is a very unique style of storytelling. I tend to stay away from that. I don't think that is in the service of the characters. If there's a way of doing that and somehow maintaining a character's depth and integrity, then you should try and do it. It's hard enough just trying to tell an effective, dramatic story. To give the character an extra burden of carrying that weight really is a problem.
In "Distant Water" I think that there is so much swirling around in the environment that kid is living in. World War II is going on. There are heavy issues of segregation. The zoot suit race riots are (happeing). The situation itself is heavily loaded.
For me the most reasonable person to really be the audience's navigator through all these issues and situations would be a child who is processing those events, taking it from a child's point of view, trying to confront those things. (I want the audience to) try to understand those things and not totally understand those things, but to really get a sense that there is a really difficult set of issues facing this kid.
For me, it made more sense to do it in a naturalistic way and having the kid be the audience's surrogate, and not necessarily burden him by putting all those other things on top of him. He doesn't have to be a symbol. He doesn't have to be a representative of anything except a child who's facing all these other things.
Victor Payan: The situations speak for themselves as well.
Carlos Avila: Absolutely. I'm amazed at the number of people who have embraced the film and continue to see it. It gets screened all the time. I think that's indicative of the fact that audiences across the board can understand it and relate to that kid. It's a story that is universal on many levels.
Victor Payan: And the line in which a soldier says that this should be happening in Italy or Germany and not Los Angeles, that also broadens the impact of the what's going really on in the story, because it's not just happening to Latinos in L.A.
Carlos Avila: Yeah, there's a bigger world out there. I think that's something you try to suggest. There's a little scene where the kid's are going on their way to pee into the pool, where they duck into an alleyway and up against a wall. There's a Japanese internment camp sign on the wall. For me, it's really nice that people spot that and see it. It was important to have that in there, because it says that it's not just Chicanos. Yeah, Chicanos have their own set of issues, their own problems, their own sense of oppression, but there are other communities out there who are facing these things, too. We can't forget that.
Victor Payan: That goes back to the naturalistic approach, because if you had gone in with a particularly loaded agenda, you might have overlooked that.
Carlos Avila: Exactly.
Victor Payan: "La Carpa" and "Distant Water" especially are both coming of age films, and I wanted you to address that in terms of filmmaking in general. I saw "Distant Water" subtextually as a film about Latino filmmaking, because in the end, the protagonists are affirming their voice in this larger pool from which they have been traditionally marginalized.
One of the kids says to Frankie, "But will anybody know?" And he responds "We'll know." That just said a lot to me about the process of making a student film as part of a marginalized group.
Carlos Avila: I hadn't really thought of it in those terms, but it's such a difficult thing to try to set out to do, you know, go out and make a film. I think that in yourself as a filmmaker, you need to know why you're doing it. In many ways I'm still idealistic, and I want to hold onto that idea that you do things that somehow you can believe in, even if nobody else sees it. You want to reach an audience. You want to communicate to a large number of people, as many people as you can. That is a goal, but you need to do it because there's something in the material that inspires you personally. There's something in the material that gets you up, gets you excited.
I think that you want that work to reach an audience. Sometimes that doesn't happen, but the fact is that these films still have to be made, these stories still have to be told. It's important for us to educate our audiences to look for these films, to be interested in these films. Even if nobody knows, maybe we'll know amongst ourselves in the Chicano community that these films exist, and they're telling our stories. The goal, of course, is to communicate to a larger audience, but I think the Chicano audience needs to be informed of it.
Victor Payan: I really got a sense from "Distant Water" that it did have a very authentic voice. It was telling it's story with a very authentic voice. It wasn't self-conscious in its intent.
Carlos Avila: I hope so. I hope that is representative of the film's own integrity, but I think that if you do something in that way, if you do tell a story that has those qualities, then other people can embrace it. The film went to Tokyo and won this international film festival.
Victor Payan: Many times with student filmmakers, just getting ideas on paper and seeing them as legitimate is a difficult step. Was that a problem facing you as you entered film school?
Carlos Avila: Even now, I've made a couple of films, and I'm still learning a great deal about the craft every day, be it the writing end, be it the directing end. I hope that it really is a question of finding material that gets you excited and inspired and somehow being able to translate those things onto the written page in a dramataic framework that can somehow be translated into film and tell a story that engages people. That process is such a mystery that those things actually come to fruition somewhere down the line. I'd like to be believe that it gets easier as you do it more.
I would hope that people realise it's something that takes effort and something that takes time, and you don't just walk into film school with that ability. It's something you work at.
Victor Payan: And let's not forget the pre-production paper end as well. The fundraising and getting a crew together.
Carlos Avila: It's a whole different animal. That is incredibly important, and there's no way to emphasize how important that is. But ultimately the biggest challenge is finding that thing that inspires you and has enough value to merit all that other effort.
Victor Payan: And film is also a community activity.
Carlos Avila: Absolutely. You only give yourself more headaches if you think you can do it alone. You limit yourself. The ideas that you try to communicate are things that have personal value to you, but you only benefit from having collaborators who bring new ideas, that challenge you to take it to another level through their insight. Some of the best teachers I had in film school were the people I was working with on the student level. I learned a lot from my peers.
Victor Payan: You have previously said that you want to be known as a good filmmaker and not as a good ethnic filmmaker. Did you get the sense that your professors regarded you as a minority film student?
Carlos Avila: I don't think it was really that big of an issue. I think that clearly they saw I was interested in telling stories that came from a different community. In that regard, I think I was working in an environment that was really supportive of that. UCLA is terrific, because so many independent filmmakers have come out of there. They really do encourage that kind of filmmaking. Allison Anders went there; Gregory Nava, who did "El Norte;" Victor Nuñez, who did "Ruby in Paradise." A lot of independent filmmakers have gone through the ranks. I think they do pride themselves on being supportive of that kind of filmmaking.
I think it was perhaps a benefit to be committed to telling other types of stories. I think they took you a bit more seriously and knew that you weren't doing film for the sake of getting out and having a director's reel that could get you a studio gig.
Victor Payan: You had worked with Gregory Nava early in your career.
Carlos Avila: Greg's been really helpful. I did some work for him as an intern when he did his film "A Time of Destiny," and we had some conversations when I was about to do "La Carpa." I've been really lucky, because I think that the Chicano filmmakers of a generation prior to me have been very supportive. I'm grateful to them, because I think that their efforts on both the university and professional level have made it easier for us who are coming in this next generation, in this next wave. They fought a lot of battles that we're benefitting from. I have personal relationships with a lot of those gentlemen.
Victor Payan: What resistance do you think today's generation of students faces as far as access to the medium.
Carlos Avila: Equipment I don't know. If you go to a film school, you have the benefit of using their equipment. As far as financing and funding, I think that the benefit that a new generation of filmmakers have is that precedents have been set, and they have reference points they can point to. That's highly beneficial, to show that this is a viable endeavor, to go out and try to tell Chicano stories. The road's been paved, and you can have another story to contribute to that growing body of work, that tradition of Chicano storytelling, be it documentary or narrative film.
Victor Payan: When you showed "Distant Water" at the Tokyo festival, it won $175,000. That must have been a strong vote of confidence.
Carlos Avila: All that money went to making "La Carpa." That helped me out, because "La Carpa" was my first professional show. It would have taken a lot longer to get that film made had I not had that initial financing. It was a big vote of confidence, and you need that kind of encouragement and acknowledgement when you're getting started.
Victor Payan: You had mentioned a lot of your influences as directors people like Frank Capra and John Sayles, fairly mainstream directors. Have you received criticism from avant garde or more activist Latino directors for taking that road?
CA: There a lot of people I admire and respect, like Martin Scorsese and Francis Ford Coppola. There are a lot of director's who inspire me. But whether or not the two films that I've done are as activist or outspoken as perhaps some people would like them to be, that's a tough thing. I think you need to speak from where you're at. It would be pretentious to do otherwise. For me, the way that I dealt with the issues and the stories in "La Carpa" and "Distant Water" were the ways to tell those stories. "La Carpa" is pretty much a fable, and "Distant Water" is in a lot of ways just a slice-of-life very naturalistic dramatic narrative.
I'm not an in-your-face confrontational kind of guy. I believe in subtlety. I love subtlety and understatement. That's inherent in my persoality, and those things are clearly going to come out in the work that I do. I can't do something that would be faking it.
Victor Payan: It goes back to the authenticity question.
Carlos Avila: You're not going to make everybody happy, and you just have to put something up there that you can embrace, that when all is said and done, you still see yourself up there. That's what I think the main goal is.
Victor Payan: What areas do you think have shown the most growth in your own work since your student days?
Carlos Avila: You walk away from each experience with new insight as to what it takes to get the job done. I think for me the thing that I've discovered is the need to understand what you're trying to say, and once you know what you're trying to say to really be an activist for that point of view and to communicate that to everybody who's working with you who's around you, be it the actors or the crew or the editor you're working with.
That's an important thing, to be able to express yourself while collaborating with other people.
Victor Payan: To have a focused vision.
Carlos Avila: Yeah, but not just having that vision, but being able to communicate to other people. I think that when you're shy about it or not able to do that, then you hurt yourself. That's something that I think will be part of my focus as I grow and develop as a director. You learn all the time.
Victor Payan: As you're getting your vision across, you also have to communicate it to all the people you ask for favors whether it's to help feed your crew or whether as a student you hit your parents up for money.
Carlos Avila: Yeah, it makes it easier. When you're trying to get that free dolly or trying to get someone to give short ends, you can do it with a clearer conscience if it's something you're really committed to. It's a valuable thing when you're writing that grant. It's easier if it's coming from your heart.
Victor Payan: And half the battle of being a student filmmaker is that you're just getting acquainted with the medium, struggling between the clarity of your vision and your limited competence with the equipment.
Carlos Avila: You realise that it's such an expensive and taxing endeavor. The toll that it takes on you, your pocketbook and your life. Particularly when you're on the student level, (you should) do things you really care about. Don't do things that are going to be that director's reel showcase piece that shows you can set up the coolest dolly shot in the world.
Those technical things are valid when appropriately used, but the main thing really is to try to do your work in such a way that it reflects the things that concern you, inspire you and interest you...the things you want to say. Chicano filmmakers come in all shapes and colors and forms with viewpoints and perspectives and different personalities. I think the challenge is to really tap into who you are as a person and try to convey those ideas and perspectives that you might have through the film meidum.
That's a pretty idealistic goal, but the student level is the best place to do that. It gets much harder later on when you're dealing with filmmaking as a business. So take the opportunity to do it while you are a student. That'll be your greatest contribution to the body of work that exists out there that is known as Chicano film.
This interview was originally published in the 1994 festival program of Cine Estudiantil: Chicano/Latino & Native American Student Film & Video Festival.
For more information regarding these articles and/or to submit an article yourself,
please contact Ethan van Thillo at sdlff@sdlatinofilm.com
San Diego Latino Film Festival,
c/o Media Arts Center San Diego,
2039 29th Street,
San Diego, CA 92104
TEL: 619.230.1938, FAX: 619.234.9722,
sdlff@sdlatinofilm.com, www.sdlatinofilm.com
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